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  1. #21

    Unhappy

    Quote Originally Posted by MUZIMUZI View Post
    So what bot are YOU using when you play t5? Spare me the bullshit we both know youre using some sort of a flyer with mega weapon on it.
    Tell you what lets make an experiment - do a 1v1 with my T4 mech, use your meta copter or meta plane or what not with mega weapon.
    Then we do another game where you build and use YOUR BEST TIER FOUR copter/plane/whatever
    I'm pretty sure i can tie or even win against you with my mech versus your T4 bot, but will probably loose against your T5 bot. that will once and for all prove my point...
    And trust me i know how to build, i have the best T4 ground mechin the game that i have seen in years
    All my work in the factory. Take and use. Lying is bad MUZIMUZI

    https://factory.robocraftgame.com/?p...ested&tier=ANY
    Last edited by ARTGUK; 05-23-2019 at 11:31 AM.

  2. #22
    These are pretty nice bots cosmetically speaking...
    i dont see any T4 ones that could do any serious damage tho... Also i never use anyone else's bots but my own. i once tried a friend's sled a few times but thats about it ;c

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by MUZIMUZI View Post
    Static and ARTGUK then please explain to us why every meta plane on T5 uses mega plasma and not several T4 plasma guns?
    How come every meta bot in the last 2 years apart from a few drones - used mega weapons?
    For the extra Damage... that's the purpose of plasma: As high a DPS as possible..
    Also moving up the tiers, guns deal more damage... Do you think if T4 guns and T5 guns swapped damage values, anyone would use T5 weapons?
    Also it has more to do with carry mass and the imbalance there, and lets not forget that in T5 we have to fight compact cube bots and T5 Ep shielded bots where higher damage is favored... That's another topic tho, but its related to this...

    Plus its not a secret, FJ intended for T5 to be mega-weapons oriented because in their "vision" somehow turning the game from lego-crafting to duplo crafting is more fun...
    The goal itself of mega weapons becoming the default main-guns for T5 was to lure more casuals in, somehow magically hoping the veterans will be like ah this is fine.
    I'm not going to argue on this... I myself don't like the "large guns small bodies" concept. But when I play T5, i have to use T5 weapons to deal damage... i do use t4 guns still on T5 bots like the tank i used to be testing...

    Why do mega weapons on regular bot make the game extremely casual? because it :
    1)removes smart gun location if you only need to place 1 - or top 2 guns it's not that hard... every monkey can build something put a gun on it and perform at least fine, try a bit harder and you got an easy meta bot. That's without even mentioning the CRF.
    This is an issue because of Compact cubes, EP shields, and high carry mass of movement parts.. From all my experience playing T5 ground heavy Tank MSMG main, I can most certainly say weapon placement matters... Its not really the weapon that's the issue... Remember drones? they used T4 weapons and would dominate T5 matches... Really, if u don't play T5 as a Tank with a mega weapon, i seriously don't think your opinion on nerfing Mega weapons further counts...

    2)Look at how mega weapons behave - do they behave like giant cannons? No. they can rotate extremely fast just like regular guns can , they can be mounted on ANY bot type in the game and still move
    from point A to B without consequences of weight. In other words you combine the agility and speed of an interceptor plane, with the power of a dreadnought. If mega weapons at least acted like giant cannons, that would've made a huge different in the air meta today, and would generally make the game more interesting...
    So i could agree with you static that balance wise it's mega weapons's weight that's the main problem about them, but that's exactly part of the childish robocraft approach that FJ took. mega weapons shouldn't have been a viable choice for air bots. if they had a 7-10 TONS weight and slower turning speed.
    That is why mega weapons CANNOT be the only weapon in T5... That's why having mega weapons from the first place on regular bots is a tough thing to balance and FJ didn't even bother to try and properly balance their aspect of weight and realism.
    EVEN if you gave heavy cubes 3500-4000 HP - meaning a proper tank would end up with like 6M HP - they would STILL suck pretty bad against a meta plane/meta copter with mega weapon on.
    Its not Mega weapon weight... Its the absurd carry mass of agile movement parts, and light weight of every alternate form of armor... Drones were a formidable force, simply because of their small size, heavy duty shields and extremely unpredictable movement due to light weight... Like c'mon, EP shields are 1kg/CPU, while heavy cubes are 2000kg/CPU... wtf?
    That's the problem currently.. the light hovers and dropters with super agility and mega weapons are no doubt harder to kill, even in T5 with T5 weapons... so its not a problem of Mega weapons as much as it is the imbalance of carry mass and other parts...

    3)fire rate - they never loose fire rate until the moment they're completely gone, unlike the T4 bot example. a T4 bot at 50% is likely barely shooting now while a megaweapon bot is probably still producing almost the same amount of DPS it did at 100%
    The one thing i personally hate and really feel upset for Sub T5 players is the non-linear scaling of fire-rate on sub-nominal weapons count... Losing a single gun of 4 reduces fire rate by more than 25%... and it keeps getting worse for every additional gun lost...
    Besides that, i don't feel Mega weapons are imbalanced for not losing fire rate on taking damage. They cost way too much extra CPU for a single gun with low Hp/CPU... like i said, spending that extra CPU on additional t4 weapons is as good as a Mega weapon minus 10% damage...
    Also, I really don't like the idea of nominal count for T5 weapons if you are planning on suggesting that...

    4)makes TTK extremely fast, with mega plasma just spraying its might in 3 seconds any ground bot no matter if it has triforcing, shields or 4M HP, unless the bot will dodge it will almost die.
    Granted this point is true for any plasma - since no plasma behaves like the old R/C plasma with a recharge time, but it's still most noticeable when you're looking at mega plasma since it has more damage, and as i mentioned it never looses fire power until it's destroyed, therefor it will shoot at a ground bot with relative ease and will take it down quick enough before it can usually react.
    You realize that this has to do with the increase in damage for weapons one tier above, and not specifically because the weapon is 'Mega'? T3 weapons deal more damage than T2 weapons, T4 deal more than T3, and T5 deal more than T4, regardless if the weapon is Mega or not...

    Do i really have to state the obvious here that they tried to cater to children and extreme casuals? WHY do you think the game was doing so good back and is almost dead now? coincidence? I know new games always have more players at the start then years down the road, but if it wasn't for all their bad decisions the game could've had thousands of players right now if not more.
    There are far bigger imbalances than Mega weapons, even tho i would just wish for Mega weapons to be pushed to TM, along with many other parts... Its those imbalances that are the real cause for the problem of losing players...

  4. #24
    Static my man, i am not suggesting anything anymore. i visit the forums from time to time but i will not be making any future posts regarding mega weapons, i was only reinforcing chochola here.
    My discord group is gaining more and more players daily, you're there too so you should know.
    I decided to take matters into my own hand that's why i made my veterans war group i'm mostly done with the lecturing...
    You know at this point its not even a matter of balancing for me, i just prefer to fight with and against people who do not use mega weapons. call it a personal taste if you will
    Also i dont blame you for picking a T5 weapon at t5, in fact im actually impressed by the fact you're fighting the meta bots without using meta bots yourself, altho we both know its a loosing battle...
    Last edited by MUZIMUZI; 05-24-2019 at 07:07 PM.

  5. #25
    Topic on steam with some old familiar names there.
    https://steamcommunity.com/app/30152...1347875370555/

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by MUZIMUZI View Post
    Static my man, i am not suggesting anything anymore. i visit the forums from time to time but i will not be making any future posts regarding mega weapons, i was only reinforcing chochola here.
    My discord group is gaining more and more players daily, you're there too so you should know.
    I decided to take matters into my own hand that's why i made my veterans war group i'm mostly done with the lecturing...
    You know at this point its not even a matter of balancing for me, i just prefer to fight with and against people who do not use mega weapons. call it a personal taste if you will
    Also i dont blame you for picking a T5 weapon at t5, in fact im actually impressed by the fact you're fighting the meta bots without using meta bots yourself, altho we both know its a loosing battle...
    It's ok buddy! I know a few things about many players here
    Like u hate mega weapons;
    Like Mike hates progression systems;
    Like Ben favors aircraft over ground;
    etc...
    These are personal preferences and i keep these in mind when i encounter u guys in forums or chats... I know i can't change ur mind about these topics bcoz its how u like playing... and i respect that... only this time i was on a terrifying "losing spree" with T5 Ground Tank single MSMG so i got real pissed abt everything...

    I joined ur group in Discord, but i can't really play due to me having the worst possible network connection and hardware compared to any of u guys.. I'm planning an upgrade tho so i might see u soon.. Wish your group success tho :thumbsup: ...

  7. #27
    Thanks. we actually had our first pretty successful session at saturday, almost full party (4v4).. and seems like there are many other people who like this concept of mine... i mean at one point i began to wonder maybe i really am just crazy for holding this preference but i think people do enjoy that more as well (also lets not forget the poll i had made which also gave a decent indication i think)

    a tank with a single MSMG i just cannot see it do much good against any air bot no matter how well built the chassis is, as much as i appreciate your tenacity here, i mean as soon as a bomber is going to notice you i don't really see what kind of option select you got... kinda brings me to my next point, since we both agree that in any tier, air bots are usually superior to ground bots, once we gain a steady 5v5 in my custom matches group i will be putting a limit of 2 air bots per team, to "manually" balance the ground-to-air imbalance the game has. i don't like overly constricting people's choices, but i think its a necessary move.. otherwise these custom matches won't be very different from the air superiority T5 matches...

    *as for mike's problem with progression system i do understand where hes coming from and he's partially right, but at the same time the tier system is there to support new players with an incremental progression system so that they don't get bombarded with all the features in the game right away. (which to this day i don't understand why there are no CPU caps for lower tiers or at least T1 to T3)
    also for me personally it was a fun trip leveling up, unlocking stuff and progressing the tiers in classic R/C... i really dont like tier mixing but i don't think the majority of players hated the concept of tiers...
    Last edited by MUZIMUZI; 05-26-2019 at 11:30 PM.

  8. #28
    Robocraft is like the fallen Angel Lucifer, once divine and great, but now he reigns upon the underworld and torments souls. This was especially true during the Luck Crate period, but now RC is slowly regaining its Wings.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by MUZIMUZI View Post
    ... once we gain a steady 5v5 in my custom matches group i will be putting a limit of 2 air bots per team, to "manually" balance the ground-to-air imbalance the game has.
    The restriction applies to all robots that are able to rise into the sky?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Neko-4401 View Post
    The restriction applies to all robots that are able to rise into the sky?
    it applies to Helicopters planes and drones... (hovers are considered ground bots)
    me and the moderators didn't decide to do this because we're hating on air bots, its because its the only way to allow ground bots to also shine and take presence...
    Understandably this is something FJ can't or won't do, that's why we're doing it in our own custom matches...