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  1. #11
    You can argue all you want mike, you have to realize players are providing feedback based off what FJ decides. This isn't a new game and we give feedback from a 'from scratch' prospective.
    They have something that works, and works pretty good (could be anything), they don't like it and change it, the new thing is broken as seen by player retention, players come along and say "here is why it is broken", FreeJam takes that feedback and ignores it and changes the change to fix the change that broke a perfectly good working system. That change doesn't work, as seen in player retention, so they change the change that changed the change that broke a perfectly good working system. Players come along and say 'here is what is wrong', and the cycle has continued. Players have to change the feedback strategy eventually because the devs don't listen to good reason ( as far as the game goes). You can't simply say 'it doesn't work because', you have to adapt as well as your feedback if you want to give it.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemoncello View Post
    What you say is true, but what was the hook in 2014 robocraft? The core of the game hasn't changed, you build your own bot (or download one, instead of copying a youtube tutorial or reverse engineering something that killed you from a screenshot like back in the day), you shoot other bots, you live or die, collect reward, get parts, repeat.

    Total newbies need a real safe-zone to learn the ropes since there's no tutorial, and vets don't want to play with total newbs because of random one-sided matches. Segregation is a win-win scenario.
    Yea but what is the segregation? Not every new player to the game is some low skill nobody. Which means all sorts of skill are forced to start and grind together through tiers till the "supposed" end game, whatever that's meant to mean in a PvP because it doesn't make sense in a PvP.

    It was never collecting reward or parts that ever interested me in the game. All that stuff is something else entirely, it's inventory management stuff that's pointless to the main experience. It gives some sense of progression when thinking in single player terms but most of the game is Player vs player action. It's the vast options in creation and the depth of the damage mechanic in battle that has ever made me want to play Robocraft.

    The thing that would drive me to keep playing a PvP is a proper PvP structure of skill ranking, leaderboards, scoring and stat tracking. These are the little things that make PvP's better experiences. Just simple things that you do for normal competitions.

    When i first found Robocraft it was through google. I didn't search for grindy games, inventory management stuff or any of that irrelevant crap. I searched for a "game where i can create my own fighter" or something very similar.

    Segregation isn't a win win if it's done inefficiently which is exactly what tiers are. PvP segregation only works with some kind of skill measurement, it doesn't segregate players into random groups based on arbitrary values of progression. It needs one giant player pool of all the players of the game. New players with no rank shouldn't be facing vet players that have gained high ranks, it's as simple as that.

    There's players in this game that have spent over 5000 hours playing and they are still no better 1000 hours later, playtime is irrelevant to good matchamking, in fact it's just another hindrance.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by elarma View Post
    You can argue all you want mike, you have to realize players are providing feedback based off what FJ decides. This isn't a new game and we give feedback from a 'from scratch' prospective.
    They have something that works, and works pretty good (could be anything), they don't like it and change it, the new thing is broken as seen by player retention, players come along and say "here is why it is broken", FreeJam takes that feedback and ignores it and changes the change to fix the change that broke a perfectly good working system. That change doesn't work, as seen in player retention, so they change the change that changed the change that broke a perfectly good working system. Players come along and say 'here is what is wrong', and the cycle has continued. Players have to change the feedback strategy eventually because the devs don't listen to good reason ( as far as the game goes). You can't simply say 'it doesn't work because', you have to adapt as well as your feedback if you want to give it.
    At the end of the day I've made my opinions clear about PvP over the years yet i'm probably most ignored by the devs. Which is fine, i can't expect more. Where is the game at these days listening to the majority though?

    All i really want from Robocraft is a good, healthy and balanced PvP experience, the game has everything else i want already there in it's base gameplay mechanics. The simple shit like the damage mechanic, that alone makes elimination battles 1000 x times more open and strategic than the crap BA mode they replaced it with etc.... Single player experiences are a hindrance to good PvP gaming, until people here actually get the point, there will never be a good PvP environment.

    Either way, i may keep giving my opinion but what does it matter? The devs would rather listen to anyone who plays games like LoL or WoW, with the exception of the whole progression system RC never felt like a PvE when it hit the steam store.

    Nothing about RC has EVER worked perfectly. The PvP environment has always been a big fat useless piece of seal clubbing troll infested turd, but under the hood the game is awesome!

    The only reason i even hang onto this game is because under the hood is good and that maybe one day the entire PvP will get one massive corrective overhaul, I've felt like that since robocraft went to steam back in like 2014, i doubt it'll ever happen but it'd be a game worth waiting for if they ever did the PvP right, which they never have, but there is a slither of hope someone will do a game like this properly for PvP! IT WILL BECOME THE NEXT BIG TREND! but only if the PvP is done right!

    If you can't make a PvP fair for everyone to have fair competition, there is simply no point making a PvP!
    Last edited by mikelaw; 02-11-2019 at 02:32 PM.

  4. #14
    Everything the OP said is true, MM is bad and Platoons are doing more damage than good for the game as a whole, I don't think anyone can argue those points with a straight face. You can't suddenly have MM separate by skill, we all had that opportunity when the great ELO discussion took place, and those of us arguing for individual stat tracking for MM to use for balanced teams lost out for a strict w/l scenario, and that didn't work out but it is what FJ chose. On top of that the player base is too small now, the bed has been made already. So what we have is new players in t5, it really plays like t1 with bigger guns at times, so yes we need some speed bumps in the way of 'progression', this is tiers because there is nothing else, mm is a dead end, like many other suggestions. Are there better way's? Maybe, but suggestions like the OP's are what we are left with.
    Last edited by elarma; 02-11-2019 at 02:40 PM.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by elarma View Post
    You can't suddenly have MM separate by skill, we all had that opportunity when the great ELO discussion took place, and those of us arguing for individual stat tracking for MM to use for balanced teams lost out for a strict w/l scenario, and that didn't work out but it is what FJ chose.
    I was there too asking for the same thing in stat tracking, shame they decided to go for the lesser option.

    Anyway i'm not saying the OP is wrong, i'm saying there is no solution that can fix a bump in the road without removing the bump in the road. Every solution is more like putting ramps at the bump so it doesn't trip people up as much, but the fact is it still trips people up just a little less. I don't understand the act of shooting oneself in the foot before a race! You're not gonna win it by creating problems for yourself.

    Not every new player to any game has to play 100's of hours before they get it, this idea is just so fucking dumb. It insults intelligence as well as create an unfair PvP environment. Vets have unfair advantages simply because they spend more time playing the game. If a new player came to the game today with skills to match mine so i should be facing them having good competition. They CAN'T, at T5 i have to wait fuck knows how long till they grinded away to even have a competition with me, this is stupid. It's not just the low end having problems, the high end there's no decent competition because players are only trickling through the progression system if they can be assed to do it in the first place. None of my mates give a fuck about progression and won't play a game that can't easily be accessed by a group of mates on day 1.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemoncello View Post
    Segregation is a win-win scenario.
    ( ͠Ĺ̯ ) good thing we have context for that.
    ANYWAY
    `
    Vet/Noob separation is a great idea, although i still worry that malicious sealclubbers might find a way to abuse this. Would absolutely help with player retention. Perhaps add a middle "experienced" bracket as well that would touch a little bit into Vet and Noob tiers to determine which you're closer to?
    `
    @Mikelaw we get it. you dislike the climb. But the whole reason its HERE is because of how different it is to play against a laser cruiser and a ion hover. by the time players are fighting ion hovers they should be well versed in the game. they should have a good grasp of the maps, their own bot handling, and their average and max damage outputs with their weapon setup.
    `
    The T4 and T5 weapons actively change the way people play because of how different they are from the original quartet of weapons. you have to think a lot more carefully how you enter a battleground if you know there is the chance an ion/tesla will approach from the back and chew you up, or a mortar could shell you from a secure location, or a chain bot could be spinning up as you round a corner. The whole point of having the climb is to give players time to gain experience before adding an entirely new element to the mix.
    `
    Throwing noobs into a moshpit of EVERYTHING is going to be overwhelming.
    Starting noobs with EVERYTHING is going to be overwhelming.
    Being overwhelmed at the start reduces player retention.
    No new players = RC dying completely
    `
    Another reason why a total flattening is an awful idea is the sheer disparate nature of design at all levels currently. the only standardization of bots lies in a handful of restrictions and requirements and part health. This isnt like CoD where health pools and hitboxes are identical. The weapons arent as constrained in terms of DPS among classes.
    There are so many more variables to consider that a flattening wouldnt work without additional handicaps, like the unbalanced and highly abusable damage and health boosts, the latter of which got nerfed to the point where building "tanky" had little benefit versus the common damage boosted bots.
    `
    Also, a noob will NEVER be as good as a vet. It may only take a week to reach that vet's skill level, but until they get the relative skill level, they are called a noob for a reason. they are NEW.
    i get your frustration, i do - but your rants are getting old.

  7. #17
    I just like the suggestion that platoons be reduced to the size of only 2 members. Any more than u can only play againts other platoons of equal size and with equal randoms as ur team.
    I think most people here will agree to this.

  8. #18
    There is no difference between tiers, it's the same game all the way through. The only thing that's different is modes. The idea that tiers is for variety is a lie, it's for seal clubbing and the act of bragging superiority. All i would like from a PvP is balance, but it's impossible the way the devs and this community is, hardly any of you seem to understand the definition of balance.

    Why is it other developers don't have these problems with their PvP games. I guess they understand what makes a good PvP, the PvP games i like have had a lot of work and focus from those developers to make decent balance but RC is just a joke. From the start the game is set on a slope and there's no balance just an environment full of asshole and bullies pushing other players away. The game is made for trolls!
    Last edited by mikelaw; 02-12-2019 at 09:15 AM.

  9. #19
    Go play fortnite bro for this games

  10. #20
    because the best way to save your dieng f2p game is to segregate the vets from the potential new player because OMG vets playing with noobs ... how dare those new players be in mai gaime!!


    in other news!

    man puts hand in cookie jar