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  1. #21
    Why is it that it is always assumed that T5 is where everyone is playing. I keep seeing arguments that low tier items are suddenly worthless, well a T2 laser is very effective in T1... People seem to argue that they only play T5 for not wanting to seal club noobs which is a bad arguement anyway because FJ made new players only matchmake with other new players up to a certain level now regardless of the tier system. So if seal clubbing doesn't count and people are only playing the top tier then all there is to understand is that it is your own choice where you wish to play. If you wish to play in T3 you have a simplified experience with no Meta BS from T5, your bot can use different sized guns and (when they finally update the game because FJ take long periods of time) when they introduce the planned tier CPU limitations you will have reason to play with smaller bots that have been granted viability in those lower tiers.
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    Here's the thing, by saying lets give lower tiered guns viability in T5 you ignore the balance of that T1 gun in its own tier. By giving that T1 gun almost endless firing capabilities like we used to have with the flattening of weapons you remove strategic gameplay from T1. Here's 2 examples:
    Example 1 (with no changes): a player engages in combat, hits as many shots as they can and depletes there energy bar, now they are forced to use their situational awareness and find suitable cover to regenerate their energy safely.
    Example 2 (with WE decrease): a player engages in combat, hits as many shots as they can but know they don't need to 'reload' and can sit still firing untill one player wins.
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    Imagining in the examples given that the players are using lasers, we know that semi-recently they received a nerf that means your accuracy decreases when moving (correct me if I am mistaken) so the best options for those players would be to be static and reliably hit all their shots. That's rather boring gameplay when you never have to move and reload...
    Last edited by Chocolaboy; 02-09-2019 at 09:49 PM.

  2. #22
    I thank you for pointing out.
    I did not notice that endless firing capabilities made the game boring.

    The solution is simple.
    Balance can be achieved by reducing the total energy according to the Tier.

    High Tier: high energy maximum value // low Tier: low energy maximum value
    Of course, the energy consumption of low Tier weapons is low.
    (The weapon concept introduced at the time of EPICLOOT is called All weapon viable, AWV.)

    Let's think about T 0 Laser with this assumption.
    It works as a sub-weapon which is a good DPE in Tier 5 and works as a main weapon with standard firing capabilities in Tier 1.
    Tier 1 is because the energy maximum is low.

    I think this is a fairly good idea, what do you think?

    The situation changes now, and an update of the CPU limit according to the tier is scheduled.
    However, the answer remains simple, and there is not much impact.

    AWV and Tier matching can coexist.
    I am convinced that there is no need to keep the energy consumption of weapons unified.

  3. #23
    By the way, as you pointed out, I loved to mind about using different weapons from T 0 to T 5 at the highest Tier. (Or weapons with T2, T3, T4 only)

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by tziii0001 View Post
    Face your fault of voting "remove boosts" and the boost removal definitely cause tiering of weapons because all robots are forced to be 2000cpu.

    Eat your tasty dog shit in T5 thank you.
    Have to say, I laughed pretty hard, however do you think the implementation on FreeJams part has something to do with it? Show me where we asked for weapons with 300k hp and face melting power with a siangle weapon? Where is it that anyone asked for over tiering weapons? If anything the player base has been pointing out issues, and providing feedback on how to stop clubbing for a few years.
    If they wanted to retain the individual properties of any class of weapon, what is stopping them? I don't think it is the removal of boosts at all. They didn't even ask the community about any of the details, they just ran with it and this is what we ended up with, so to say it is the communities fault is a bit of a stretch.
    Last edited by elarma; 02-10-2019 at 04:43 AM.

  5. #25
    We're gonna end up in circles again. After they removed boosts and reintroduced tiers, the game actually felt less varied for me. Mega rails felt like the powerhouse bolt action sniper with a big penalty for missing. The other rails felt more like a semi-auto sniper with lesser reward but a bit more room to make up for errors. People complain about mega tier weapons when that's exactly what tiers are. Upgrades.

    The original idea behind boosts and removing tiers was to make each bot more on a level playing field rather than determining their raw strength through tier levels. Since a lot of people were against boosts, we're back to, mostly old Robocraft. I'm not saying boosts was a good system however. There could have been better options to allow more diverse builds.

  6. #26
    This was Mark's original promise in the realizing the vision fiasco. Each tier of weapons behaving differently (T0 smg like uzis, T5 smg like a naval cannon) so they could all compete at the same level and lead to real variety, new archetypes, etc.

    What happened? loot crates happened. If starter weapons were competitive there was no reason to gib dem monies through gambling schemes.

    Now that loot crates are gone there's really no reason not to rework the game in that direction. The models are already made, they just need new ideas for mechanics (like a weapon concept contest) and then start adding them periodically like the olden times when we got a new part every 6 weeks or so.

  7. #27
    The whole point of tiers is that the lower ones are WEAK, and the higher ones are STRONG. This system built a thriving game with 20,000 players, then the devs killed it.

    Player numbers slowly fell for years.

    If small weapons are as competitive as large ones, why advance through the tech tree.

    Finally there is a return to form. About time.

    EDIT: I had many poss on the old forum about exactly this, but that was wiped out too.
    Last edited by Argon_; 02-10-2019 at 10:38 PM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Argon_ View Post
    The whole point of tiers is that the lower ones are WEAK, and the higher ones are STRONG. This system built a thriving game with 20,000 players, then the devs killed it.

    Player numbers slowly fell for years.

    If small weapons are as competitive as large ones, why advance through the tech tree.

    Finally there is a return to form. About time.

    EDIT: I had many poss on the old forum about exactly this, but that was wiped out too.
    What you call return to form I call pandering of the worst kind to the nostalgia crowd. Either way it failed, no one that came back for the tiers stayed. Numbers plummeted 3 weeks after the patch because of empty tiers and AI bots.

    Tiers simply don't work without people, they should be removed again and instead of boosts just rework the smaller than T4 weapons to behave differently. Then go to work on the mega ones.

    How would that work? First you cut all the weapons that aren't T4, leave those as baseline/starter weapons (Effectively a single tier for all) and as they come up with new mechanics/behaviors for the other weapon models they add them back to the game in frequent patches. Without the madness of 5 tiers + 5 leagues there shouldn't be much problem having a skill based matchmaker (top request for a long time).

  9. #29
    General comments, This might end up being a combination of updates, boosts were bad imo and shouldn't come back. I'm not sure anyone wanted mega weapons to be T5, this is like saying the old T10 was about mega weapons, when it wasn't. I think k keeping tiers as maybe a campaign of sorts, combined with the new robits for garage space and nix the cpu limit. Not totally sure on the cpu limit part, but right now 2000 cpu in T5 is the same as 2000 cpu in t1, theoretically you could make all the weapons useful throughout all the tiers as weapon damage relates to total HP and right now it is all the same because all tiers has 2000 cup limit, if the goal is to use tiers as a learning curve for players, which it should be. I do think there was more variety with the various size weapon when we had boost, just think the boosts were bad.
    Last edited by elarma; 02-11-2019 at 02:20 AM.

  10. #30
    Objectively, you are wrong.



    The greatest days of this game stood atop a tiered system.