Weapon's should return to being balanced against each other

[Chocolaboy]

Ok I don't know what the heck FJ is doing with the latest developments jam but it sounds bad to me... Onto my point, back when we had the good tier system there was an electronic mania update that provided T1-9 varients of shields as T10 options (same shapes with buffed hp and increased RR) the new balance doesn't feel like we need this, however if they provided a top tier option of the previous tiers weapons with the same damage but consumed less energy and perhaps had altered fire rates it could be more Varied in T5 again. It's just an idea I guess, what do you think? And is this what you meant originally?

[Lemoncello]

Objectively, you are wrong.



The greatest days of this game stood atop a tiered system.

I'm saying that the return of tiers was pandering and it has already failed. Look at the player count since Infinity update. Players gained in November 2018 lasted less than a month.

If they can sweep robocraft royale under the rug as a failure they can do that again with tiers. There's no loot crates anymore to deter people from progressing if starter weapons are competitive. If you still want your precious tiers then the reworked small arms can be T5-only cubes like said above. Bam! more content, little work.

[Chocolaboy]

I'm saying that the return of tiers was pandering and it has already failed. Look at the player count since Infinity update. Players gained in November 2018 lasted less than a month.

If they can sweep robocraft royale under the rug as a failure they can do that again with tiers. There's no loot crates anymore to deter people from progressing if starter weapons are competitive. If you still want your precious tiers then the reworked small arms can be T5-only cubes like said above. Bam! more content, little work.

Pandering is used in a negative light when referring to a minority. In this case the RC who grew up with the 11Tier system is a majority of players looking back on that chart. The aim was to regain interest and bring those players back. The reason the tiers failed was because they didn't at all bring back the old tier system. They left out tiered TP, TX-1, 6 tiers, CPU limitations and more... The point being FJ never commits to returning old features and this is why they altametely lose faith from players. Some people came back and then realised that all they had done was shove the mega meta BS into T5 and still mega weapons ruin creativity and bot diversity in this way. You can't even build freely with LMH without being overtiered (they shouldn't have RR). This game is essentially on its death bed and I blame FJ for 99% of the mistakes that lead to loss of players. They did it to themselves early on by thinking they could reimagine the game and stay in anyway relevant.

[omiwatari1_3billion]

Hey, please take a closer look at this. I tried hard and made it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

This is TTK of the current balance and TTK of balance including "AllWeaponViable" and CPU limit, Energy limit. This was my plan, and it was improved as a result of being pointed out.
The last is TTK which contains only the scheduled CPU limit.

It is an assumption limited at 12.5% intervals.
12.5% of 2000CPU is 250CPU. Energy is 12550, so 12.5% of this is about 1569

Comparing TTK including only the scheduled CPU limit with TTK including "AWV", CPU limit and Energy limit, you can see that both have the same TTK.
- The balance of AWV quotes a value slightly before Robopass Update.

The fact that TTK is almost the same is that play feeling does not change very much.
Energy Depletion Time, EDT are nonlinear, but this can be solved by balancing energy consumption.

In other words, AWV and Tier matching are compatible.
Thanks to AWV, T 0, T 1, T 2 weapons will be included in choices even if you are on the T 3 battlefield.
However, the energy limit corresponding to the tier is a precondition.

I am going to make a thread about this subject with more obvious sentences.

[Spectryotic]

I agree that smaller weapons should use less energy. However they shouldn't be as efficient as they were before.
Also the smallest nanos and teslas should use some energy instead of taking none.

[GeneMonkey]

Hey, please take a closer look at this. I tried hard and made it.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

This is TTK of the current balance and TTK of balance including "AllWeaponViable" and CPU limit, Energy limit. This was my plan, and it was improved as a result of being pointed out.
The last is TTK which contains only the scheduled CPU limit.

It is an assumption limited at 12.5% intervals.
12.5% of 2000CPU is 250CPU. Energy is 12550, so 12.5% of this is about 1569

Comparing TTK including only the scheduled CPU limit with TTK including "AWV", CPU limit and Energy limit, you can see that both have the same TTK.
- The balance of AWV quotes a value slightly before Robopass Update.

The fact that TTK is almost the same is that play feeling does not change very much.
Energy Depletion Time, EDT are nonlinear, but this can be solved by balancing energy consumption.

In other words, AWV and Tier matching are compatible.
Thanks to AWV, T 0, T 1, T 2 weapons will be included in choices even if you are on the T 3 battlefield.
However, the energy limit corresponding to the tier is a precondition.

I am going to make a thread about this subject with more obvious sentences.

Wow! You really put a lot of effort and thought into this. Kudos to you.

One of the things I really liked about the "AWV" system was that you could use it in your bot design to give you a way to manage your energy usage during gameplay. If you designed your bot to have a high energy consumption "alpha strike", you could also include some low (or 0) energy consumption weapons so you could still be doing something useful while your energy recovered. It added a level of sophistication to both the play-style and robot design that is no longer a viable option.

I think that a tier based energy limit would work well to help differentiate the tiers and add one more check against seal-clubbing. I don't really see a problem with more experienced players going into the lower tiers and slapping around new players from time to time, if they are doing it based on skill and tactics, and not access to superior parts. You could make a strong argument that this is even desirable to some extent because it helps demonstrate to new players what an effective play-style looks like.

[MUZIMUZI]

Pandering is used in a negative light when referring to a minority. In this case the RC who grew up with the 11Tier system is a majority of players looking back on that chart. The aim was to regain interest and bring those players back. The reason the tiers failed was because they didn't at all bring back the old tier system. They left out tiered TP, TX-1, 6 tiers, CPU limitations and more... The point being FJ never commits to returning old features and this is why they altametely lose faith from players. Some people came back and then realised that all they had done was shove the mega meta BS into T5 and still mega weapons ruin creativity and bot diversity in this way. You can't even build freely with LMH without being overtiered (they shouldn't have RR). This game is essentially on its death bed and I blame FJ for 99% of the mistakes that lead to loss of players. They did it to themselves early on by thinking they could reimagine the game and stay in anyway relevant.

+1 Yup - Its not that tiers made the game "fail again" - its that FJ didn't release tiers as they should've. But much worse than that is the fact they never made an effort to make T5
a common ground for all bot types - they never address the screaming balance issues between weapons and when they do it takes them months, loosing players that do not return later down the road because they've forgotten about the game.
Mega weapons and unbalanced movement types are the two things that mostly killed our game, if they hadn't took the road to mega weapons that started around 2016 I believe the game would
at least have couple thousand more active players.
Almost forgot the brilliant idea of CRF - giving all the noobs access to the best bots in the game that were made by people who don't even play the game anymore. the irony lol

[Argon_]

+1 Yup - Its not that tiers made the game "fail again" - its that FJ didn't release tiers as they should've. But much worse than that is the fact they never made an effort to make T5
a common ground for all bot types - they never address the screaming balance issues between weapons and when they do it takes them months, loosing players that do not return later down the road because they've forgotten about the game.
Mega weapons and unbalanced movement types are the two things that mostly killed our game, if they hadn't took the road to mega weapons that started around 2016 I believe the game would
at least have couple thousand more active players.
Almost forgot the brilliant idea of CRF - giving all the noobs access to the best bots in the game that were made by people who don't even play the game anymore. the irony lol

The CRF.

Turning RoboCraft into RoboBuy.

[catnium]

Most bots in the factory hail from a different robocraft age and only worked with hp/damage/speed scaling. .
A purge of the factory and a fresh start is very much desired.

[omiwatari1.3billion]

Did Robocraft really need the Weapon Upgrade System?
It was much better to implement a weapon system with many options, like this thread.

The dysfunctional Tier system and BAY upgrade costs kill the beginners only. Weapon upgrade system to make it worse.

The development of Robocraft is at a loss.